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[Music]

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hello everyone how are you doing on this

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wonderful friday i hope you are all good

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thank you so much

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for joining

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me live here um let's not waste any more

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time i'm really looking forward to this

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conversation so without further ado i'd

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like to introduce dr michael p masters

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michael how are you doing

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i'm doing great how about yourself

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i'm not bad at all thank you

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sorry i'm just getting a message that my

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internet's dying a bit

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yeah i think that should help a little

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bit

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um yeah i have to i have to do different

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settings depending on what i'm doing

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i've just been doing some research

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before i jumped on so apologies everyone

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so

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much for joining me i've really been uh

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looking forward to this conversation so

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to start with i just wondered if you'd

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be able to just give us a little bit of

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a background on yourself and and how you

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got to the

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the point of where you're at now

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with the biological anthropology

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yeah um i mean i've always been

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interested in science and um

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i remember getting magazines as a kid uh

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reading them intently and uh so i guess

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i've always been drawn to science in

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general but as far as biological

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anthropology goes i

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started out in physics and astronomy as

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an undergrad and uh switched to bioanth

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probably my s late sophomore junior year

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and

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stuck with it ever since um

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went to grad school got to travel around

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to different dig sites in south africa

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two different summers and southern

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france for a season working down there

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and

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yeah just traveling around museums

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universities throughout europe and

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africa collecting data

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for my phd and um

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now i teach at montana tech it's a

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science and engineering school in the

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pacific northwest and uh yes still

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keeping up with uh

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research and publishing with regard to

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my field but um

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it's kind of obviously which is why i'm

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here to talk about the ufo side of

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things uh dove into that about seven or

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eight years ago

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and um yeah it's been it's been a really

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fun

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side project i guess you could say uh

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just researching the

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the fascinating aspects of this

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phenomenon it's been really enlightening

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and

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very a very good complement to the other

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research that i do the two dovetail

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pretty nicely as it turns out

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yeah absolutely and you said about six

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or seven years ago was there a specific

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case that drew you into the field of

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view you know ufos because obviously

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that's pre-2017 with when it already

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blew up as it were so yeah what what

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what was it specifically was there

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anything

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uh yeah it was getting tenure and the

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protections that come with it i i've

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been

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bouncing around this idea of time

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traveling humans since i was eight or

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nine years old and i i knew i always

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wanted to look into it more but

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yeah it was pre 2017 and it was still

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taboo

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so i waited until i had those

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protections in place

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i got tenure

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or knew i would have it soon i started

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working on this before i got tenure in

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2015

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and then uh

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got promoted to full professor a couple

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years after that and then published the

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book a couple years after that so it's

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the kind of this long-term plan

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but no there wasn't any specific case

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that brought me in or any major event it

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was really just this

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sort of background desire that i had to

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pursue this further and um it seemed

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like the appropriate time to start

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working on it knowing it would take

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i didn't know it would take seven years

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to write the book but um

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it did and i'm kind of glad i timed it

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the way i did especially because the new

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york times article really opened a lot

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of doors for researchers like myself who

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were victimized by the stigma and shame

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that goes along with this and it's

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obviously still there to some extent but

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i feel like we've moved past that much

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more in the last two to three years

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absolutely yeah so

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you had this theory that you wanted to

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write about

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did it originally did you know it was

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going to be a book or did you think

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maybe at first it could be a paper

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yeah i did actually um a paper made

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sense and then two things happened i

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realized that there was just too much

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content to summarize in one paper and

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where would i publish it there

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academic journals weren't

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taking anything that had anything to do

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with ufos and especially

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this uh

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the the beans associated with them and

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we're still kind of at this point where

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yeah okay ufos are real but can we talk

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about the beams that are seen in

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association with them or during

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abductions or contact-y experiences so

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there's still a little bit of taboo

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surrounding that we don't have clear

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video evidence of

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these individuals that are piloting the

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craft yet so yeah it's still a more

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tenuous aspect of the argument but if we

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can take seriously the

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thousands tens of thousands of people

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who have encountered these beans

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and look at patterns and the data i

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think we can start to make some informed

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guesses as to who they are where they're

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coming from or potentially when they're

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coming from in this case

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yeah absolutely so

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would you mind sort of giving us an

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overview of your theory and about

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about

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what it may entail and that because you

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know i'm aware of it and it's

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fascinating but i think it'd be good if

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everybody kind of

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heard you know how it came about and and

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grew into becoming the subject of a book

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sure yeah i avoid calling it my theory

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because a lot of other people have been

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arguing this for

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long before i was born i mean i in in my

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new book um there's i try to list

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everybody i could possibly find

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put this forth in one

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capacity or another and really it goes

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back to the 40s is some of the first

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evidence i've found with people

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discussing this

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potentiality but my own origin story

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like i said started when i was eight and

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uh i overheard my father talking about a

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ufo encounter that he had

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before i was born but he was telling

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some friends

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about it that were over at our house and

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then

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like most sensible people of that time

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he got whitley strieber's book communion

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and uh i remember one day looking up at

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the living room shelf and seeing that

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quintessential grey alien form and just

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kind of wondered if there could be a

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connection i had this mental image of a

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early hominin a modern human and then

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uh seeing this alien for the first time

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just sort of

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made me wonder if there could be some

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connection there and and so i was mostly

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coming at it from the biological side

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even then

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which is why it made sense to switch my

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major and uh as an undergrad and i'm

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glad i did because it turns out a lot of

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other people are looking at this

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possibility from a physics standpoint uh

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jack sarfati is one example and yeah

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rich hoffman

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uh is another example ahead of the scu

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so

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a case for this um and even in pop

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culture the ideas come out quite a bit

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um

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so yeah for me it was about

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looking at that that human evolution

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side and and really if if you look at

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the last six to eight million years of

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hominin evolution the one

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main trend in our cranial facial anatomy

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is that we've had an increase in the

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size of our neurocranium a decrease in

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the size of our face our brains have

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gotten bigger more rounded or more

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bulbous headed now

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cranial globularity is what what that's

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called

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so

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really

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regardless of where we lived what time

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period what our social political

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organization was like these same trends

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persisted so i just argue that if they

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continue into the future which they're

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likely to do

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that we're going to look

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uh like these quintessentially gray

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alien forms but it's important to point

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out that the the majority of cases at

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least based on

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the research that they did in the dr

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edgar mitchell free study are are human

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they're not even described as grays

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they're described as human entirely

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human just like us after that is the

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short grays and the tall graves and then

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these other forms so all of these three

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groups

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are hominin they're upright walking

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bipedal

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hominin forms um so i don't think we can

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ignore that

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and then it brings up questions about

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whether or not we would get that form on

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another planet with a different gravity

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different atmosphere different

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chemical biological composition

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different coating system potentially

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silicone or carbon based there's so many

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factors that go into making us unique

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on this planet i don't think it's likely

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that it would happen the same way that

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we get something so similar to us but

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just slightly more advanced than our

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technology i think a more

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parsimonious solution kind of the

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occam's razor scenarios that they're

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they're just awesome or evolved for them

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both biologically and technologically

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yeah i mean i i see where you're coming

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from it makes sense when you think about

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it like that

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compared to a space-time manipulation

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traveling

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from another solar system or galaxy or

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universe so

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um so if that's the case do you think

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there's a specific

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what system they may use to do the

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traveling in i mean you say you do have

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or you have had a background in physics

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have you tried to integrate that into

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your

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into this theory to kind of give it some

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weight

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yeah absolutely um i i've really kept up

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with the literature the best i can um

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there

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forum a debate about whether or not

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backward time travel is even possible

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but if you look at the literature there

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00:10:50,389 --> 00:10:48,800
seems to be broad consensus that it is

285
00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:50,399
and if there's nothing in the laws of

286
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:52,320
physics that prohibits backward time

287
00:10:56,150 --> 00:10:54,399
travel we're likely to eventually figure

288
00:10:58,550 --> 00:10:56,160
out how to do it based on our track

289
00:11:00,069 --> 00:10:58,560
record of accelerating technological

290
00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:00,079
innovation

291
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:01,600
physics and engineering but also

292
00:11:05,670 --> 00:11:03,440
material sciences which i think is going

293
00:11:06,630 --> 00:11:05,680
to be a big part of the equation

294
00:11:08,710 --> 00:11:06,640
so

295
00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:08,720
really what i've done is just try to

296
00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:10,240
synthesize

297
00:11:14,389 --> 00:11:12,640
the the research that's been done to

298
00:11:16,550 --> 00:11:14,399
demonstrate how

299
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:16,560
this might happen and

300
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:18,560
really since einstein published his

301
00:11:23,509 --> 00:11:21,440
paper on general relativity in 1915

302
00:11:25,990 --> 00:11:23,519
almost instantly there were solutions to

303
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:26,000
his 10 field equations that showed

304
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:27,680
how we might create these closed

305
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:29,040
time-like curves they've showed it's

306
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:30,240
possible

307
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:32,160
but then also went on to demonstrate how

308
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:34,160
we might actually do it and and what's

309
00:11:39,509 --> 00:11:36,320
interesting about it and an argument

310
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:39,519
that i make in presentations often time

311
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:41,600
is that we have this um

312
00:11:46,150 --> 00:11:43,920
idiom in the biological sciences that

313
00:11:47,750 --> 00:11:46,160
form follows function you can see it in

314
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:47,760
the form of all of the different

315
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:50,720
morphological components of an organism

316
00:11:55,030 --> 00:11:53,360
you can deduce what the function is even

317
00:11:56,790 --> 00:11:55,040
if they're fossils they're not living

318
00:11:58,069 --> 00:11:56,800
entities where you can see them using

319
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:58,079
these things

320
00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:00,240
and the same would seem to apply

321
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,120
to these craft especially the

322
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:05,360
the disc shaped craft there's obviously

323
00:12:09,590 --> 00:12:08,399
variation in the form but the the most

324
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:09,600
common one

325
00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:11,839
is a disc shape and if you look at the

326
00:12:17,350 --> 00:12:14,000
solutions to his field equations going

327
00:12:19,829 --> 00:12:17,360
back to lens and thurine van stockham uh

328
00:12:21,750 --> 00:12:19,839
godel and especially frank tipler with

329
00:12:24,470 --> 00:12:21,760
the tipler cylinder he's describing

330
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:24,480
essentially ufo where if we take this

331
00:12:27,910 --> 00:12:26,959
long cylinder and shrink it down to a

332
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:27,920
ring

333
00:12:32,389 --> 00:12:29,920
and if it has the right mass in the

334
00:12:33,910 --> 00:12:32,399
right rotation um the right amount of

335
00:12:36,069 --> 00:12:33,920
energy you can create these closed

336
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:36,079
timeline curves so the fact that the

337
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:38,959
historical literature on how we might

338
00:12:42,870 --> 00:12:40,800
create a time machine

339
00:12:45,110 --> 00:12:42,880
is very similar to the description of

340
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:45,120
the majority of these craft seems to

341
00:12:49,110 --> 00:12:47,360
indicate that the the form of these

342
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:49,120
these disc shaped crafts has the

343
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:50,160
function

344
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:52,639
of warping space time and and going

345
00:12:55,030 --> 00:12:54,240
backward in time

346
00:12:57,590 --> 00:12:55,040
yeah

347
00:13:00,310 --> 00:12:57,600
excellent do you think that maybe if

348
00:13:01,990 --> 00:13:00,320
it is indeed a time travel thing do you

349
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:02,000
think that there are different stages of

350
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:03,680
the future that they've come back from

351
00:13:07,670 --> 00:13:05,760
so there could be you know some from a

352
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:07,680
few thousand years some from hundreds of

353
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:09,680
thousands of years all coming back to

354
00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:12,079
our time simultaneously

355
00:13:16,629 --> 00:13:13,760
absolutely yeah and i would put it even

356
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:16,639
closer than that i i'm starting to think

357
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:18,639
based on research i'm doing for this new

358
00:13:21,030 --> 00:13:20,160
book that it might be a few hundred

359
00:13:24,230 --> 00:13:21,040
years

360
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:24,240
when we start to have the capability to

361
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,480
do this and if you think about it if if

362
00:13:31,910 --> 00:13:28,720
this was theoretically a time machine

363
00:13:33,910 --> 00:13:31,920
that crashed into roswell in 1947

364
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:33,920
we've already been back engineering this

365
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:35,440
technology and initially we might not

366
00:13:39,030 --> 00:13:37,519
have known it was a time machine but

367
00:13:41,670 --> 00:13:39,040
we'd still try to figure out the

368
00:13:43,350 --> 00:13:41,680
anti-gravity propulsion system and the

369
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:43,360
other characteristics of the ship and

370
00:13:48,550 --> 00:13:45,600
eventually realize oh wait they can

371
00:13:50,870 --> 00:13:48,560
manipulate space-time as described in so

372
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:50,880
many different contact experiences as

373
00:13:54,230 --> 00:13:52,320
well especially those that were close to

374
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:54,240
the ship or in the ship

375
00:13:58,230 --> 00:13:55,279
so

376
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:58,240
if if we know that's what it is and we

377
00:14:02,069 --> 00:14:00,480
have an example of this thing from the

378
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:02,079
future it's only a matter of time before

379
00:14:07,230 --> 00:14:04,000
we create that same thing that came back

380
00:14:09,750 --> 00:14:07,240
and crashed in 1947 and continues that

381
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:09,760
self-consistency in the loop across

382
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:11,760
these different points in time

383
00:14:17,670 --> 00:14:14,480
um beyond that there's a number of cases

384
00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:17,680
where it's just humans that come out of

385
00:14:21,829 --> 00:14:19,760
these ships wearing uniforms similar to

386
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:21,839
what our modern day military members

387
00:14:25,509 --> 00:14:23,760
wear um

388
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:25,519
there's one case in particular from here

389
00:14:29,110 --> 00:14:27,680
in montana that i talk about my new book

390
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:29,120
and joan byrd

391
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:32,079
also talks about in her book montana

392
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:33,440
ufos

393
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:36,560
where this fella is up mining gold a

394
00:14:40,150 --> 00:14:38,480
couple hours from where i live up near

395
00:14:42,550 --> 00:14:40,160
helena montana

396
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:42,560
and he comes around there's this ufo

397
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,880
getting water out of one of his sluice

398
00:14:48,629 --> 00:14:46,320
sluice pawns

399
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:48,639
and this fella comes out

400
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:51,440
human man uh speaks to him verbally

401
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:53,760
vocally not using telepathy or anything

402
00:14:58,470 --> 00:14:56,079
and says oh hi didn't know anybody who

403
00:14:59,750 --> 00:14:58,480
was here he kind of surprised us but

404
00:15:02,069 --> 00:14:59,760
do you mind if we take some water

405
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:02,079
explains how they use it to extract the

406
00:15:06,910 --> 00:15:04,480
hydrogen as a fuel source takes them

407
00:15:09,670 --> 00:15:06,920
onto the ship explains how their uh

408
00:15:11,030 --> 00:15:09,680
electromagnetic anti-gravity system

409
00:15:13,350 --> 00:15:11,040
works shows them all the components

410
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:13,360
which you know he's a minor in the early

411
00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:15,920
1900s he doesn't understand all of this

412
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:18,160
but he tried to write as much down

413
00:15:21,750 --> 00:15:19,680
as he could because he knew it was

414
00:15:24,069 --> 00:15:21,760
important he knew he was getting some

415
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:24,079
very esoteric information but it's one

416
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,560
of many cases where you have a human who

417
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:28,800
looks exactly like us who's using

418
00:15:32,949 --> 00:15:30,720
technology that doesn't really seem that

419
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:32,959
different from what we're using now

420
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:35,279
which makes me think yeah at least some

421
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:38,079
of them are coming from a more proximate

422
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:40,320
time period but then once you get into

423
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:42,560
the the grays especially the short grays

424
00:15:48,069 --> 00:15:45,360
the tall grays maybe even the reptilians

425
00:15:50,069 --> 00:15:48,079
and and mantis like creatures maybe

426
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:50,079
they're from a very distant point

427
00:15:53,749 --> 00:15:52,000
in a revolutionary future so it's not

428
00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:53,759
likely once we have this technology

429
00:15:57,189 --> 00:15:54,959
we're just going to get rid of it we're

430
00:15:59,030 --> 00:15:57,199
probably going to continue to use it and

431
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:59,040
continue to go back to different time

432
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,040
periods we'd expect to see

433
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:03,440
temporal variation in the form of not

434
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:05,519
just the beams but their craft maybe the

435
00:16:10,710 --> 00:16:08,639
triangles are from a more distant point

436
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:10,720
in our technological future i mean maybe

437
00:16:15,269 --> 00:16:13,360
it helps explain the variation in both

438
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:15,279
their physiology and also their

439
00:16:18,550 --> 00:16:16,720
technology

440
00:16:20,389 --> 00:16:18,560
yeah that does make sense did you ever

441
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:20,399
come across any kind of paradox issues

442
00:16:25,509 --> 00:16:22,880
or anything that sort of halted you and

443
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,519
made you have to kind of rethink certain

444
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:27,360
aspects of it because you know that does

445
00:16:30,790 --> 00:16:29,120
come up a lot when people talk about

446
00:16:32,949 --> 00:16:30,800
time travel

447
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:32,959
yeah it does um but a lot of that is

448
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:35,440
just misconceptions about the way in

449
00:16:41,110 --> 00:16:37,759
which time works

450
00:16:42,870 --> 00:16:41,120
many are derived from really bad plots

451
00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:42,880
in movies

452
00:16:46,230 --> 00:16:44,639
i think back to the future ruined a

453
00:16:47,189 --> 00:16:46,240
whole generation

454
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:47,199
on

455
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:50,000
the the mechanisms and the effects of

456
00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:51,839
time travel because it

457
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:53,360
confused people because it didn't make

458
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:55,920
any damn sense so they're just like oh

459
00:16:59,910 --> 00:16:57,680
if i go back and change something i'll

460
00:17:01,110 --> 00:16:59,920
disappear from pictures

461
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,120
yeah it's dumb

462
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,680
um there are others who who have done it

463
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:05,520
well and you're starting to see that

464
00:17:09,270 --> 00:17:08,160
more but if you really get into

465
00:17:10,230 --> 00:17:09,280
uh

466
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:10,240
the

467
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:11,839
aspects of

468
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:13,839
paradoxes that are usually mentioned

469
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,559
consistency paradoxes where you go back

470
00:17:20,069 --> 00:17:18,480
in time and if you change something then

471
00:17:21,750 --> 00:17:20,079
it didn't happen and how do you know

472
00:17:23,590 --> 00:17:21,760
you're going to change it what happens

473
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:23,600
if you kill your grandfather or

474
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:25,360
grandmother before they gave birth to

475
00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:27,520
your parents and so on and so forth but

476
00:17:32,630 --> 00:17:30,400
in the context of the block universe and

477
00:17:34,390 --> 00:17:32,640
block time which is the dominant model

478
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,400
among physicists

479
00:17:38,630 --> 00:17:36,960
there aren't paradoxes in this sense

480
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,640
everything remains inherently

481
00:17:42,789 --> 00:17:40,960
self-consistent if you're alive you

482
00:17:45,029 --> 00:17:42,799
didn't kill your your grandparents and

483
00:17:47,350 --> 00:17:45,039
there's no way that you can do that

484
00:17:49,270 --> 00:17:47,360
anything that you did in the past

485
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,280
any change that you feel like you're

486
00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:51,280
you're making simply because of the way

487
00:17:55,990 --> 00:17:53,840
time operates in the block universe

488
00:17:58,390 --> 00:17:56,000
any effect already manifested itself

489
00:18:00,390 --> 00:17:58,400
before you left to go back to that point

490
00:18:02,870 --> 00:18:00,400
in the past any sort of ripple effect or

491
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:02,880
butterfly effect all of those changes

492
00:18:05,270 --> 00:18:03,919
occurred

493
00:18:06,789 --> 00:18:05,280
you're just going back and doing the

494
00:18:07,990 --> 00:18:06,799
thing you had always done

495
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:08,000
in that

496
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:10,160
position in fourth dimensional space

497
00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:11,440
time so

498
00:18:14,310 --> 00:18:12,240
um

499
00:18:16,630 --> 00:18:14,320
you start to actually get paradoxes when

500
00:18:18,310 --> 00:18:16,640
you look at it in the context of the

501
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:18,320
multiverse though the many worlds

502
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:20,000
interpretation of quantum mechanics

503
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,320
where you can create different timelines

504
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:24,240
and then some of those consistency

505
00:18:29,590 --> 00:18:27,440
paradoxes come into play um where you

506
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:29,600
how would you know to change that if in

507
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:31,840
this timeline it didn't actually happen

508
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:34,320
um but that's it's sort of a still a

509
00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:36,080
fringe theory i'll probably get some

510
00:18:40,630 --> 00:18:38,320
hate mail for saying that but uh there

511
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,640
are some issues with the multiverse most

512
00:18:44,549 --> 00:18:42,400
physicists adhere to the block time

513
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:44,559
model and and everything

514
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:47,520
seems to stay consistent within uh

515
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:49,600
within this particular model so i i'm

516
00:18:54,870 --> 00:18:52,000
mostly focused on that for the book but

517
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:54,880
do acknowledge that as our our knowledge

518
00:19:00,870 --> 00:18:57,360
of space and time continues to evolve we

519
00:19:01,909 --> 00:19:00,880
might have to modify that um but sure i

520
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:01,919
don't know

521
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:03,760
one thing i wanted to touch on was like

522
00:19:07,669 --> 00:19:05,520
you say it took quite a few years to

523
00:19:10,230 --> 00:19:07,679
write the book and you must have seen

524
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:10,240
an evolution of that theory over those

525
00:19:15,350 --> 00:19:12,720
years and putting more pieces together

526
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,360
do you see that changing

527
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:17,520
now and and still moving forward you

528
00:19:21,350 --> 00:19:19,440
know or would you kind of

529
00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:21,360
put a line under it and move on to

530
00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:24,320
something else

531
00:19:28,549 --> 00:19:25,360
yeah i mean

532
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:28,559
what's interesting about it is

533
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:30,400
you know it's one of those things where

534
00:19:34,789 --> 00:19:32,000
you really have to be cautious of

535
00:19:37,510 --> 00:19:34,799
confirmation bias because you can easily

536
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:37,520
only look for things that back up your

537
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:38,559
model

538
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:39,360
um

539
00:19:44,390 --> 00:19:42,080
but but i early on i printed out a list

540
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:44,400
of all of these logical paradoxes and

541
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:46,559
these logical fallacies and kept it on

542
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:47,679
my desk

543
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:50,080
consulted it at least you know once a

544
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,840
month or so just to make sure i wasn't

545
00:19:55,430 --> 00:19:53,840
falling into any of these traps and

546
00:19:57,669 --> 00:19:55,440
confirmation bias was the one i was

547
00:19:58,470 --> 00:19:57,679
worried about the most sure but with

548
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:58,480
that

549
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:59,760
uh sort of

550
00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:01,440
self-governing

551
00:20:05,750 --> 00:20:04,000
aspect to this the the more i learned

552
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:05,760
about it the more things just kind of

553
00:20:10,870 --> 00:20:07,919
started to make more sense even looking

554
00:20:13,029 --> 00:20:10,880
at these things that deviate from

555
00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:13,039
this model and i try to do that more in

556
00:20:16,549 --> 00:20:15,360
this next book is look at specific case

557
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,559
studies

558
00:20:20,549 --> 00:20:18,559
in the context of

559
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:20,559
what makes sense in this extra

560
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:22,799
tempestural model but what makes more

561
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:24,240
sense with the extraterrestrial

562
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,559
hypothesis or ultraterrestrials or

563
00:20:30,710 --> 00:20:28,640
interdimensional any of the other

564
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:30,720
explanations for this phenomenon so it's

565
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:33,840
a critical approach to this based on

566
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:36,000
some well-known and lesser known case

567
00:20:39,270 --> 00:20:37,120
studies

568
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:39,280
um but no i mean there wasn't really any

569
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:41,760
point where i had to stop and say

570
00:20:47,350 --> 00:20:44,960
wait this doesn't make sense anymore um

571
00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:47,360
things just kept sort of bolstering it

572
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:49,760
what one good example is um

573
00:20:54,070 --> 00:20:51,919
learning about jim peniston's encounter

574
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:54,080
right before i published the book and i

575
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,840
threw in a paragraph in a section where

576
00:20:58,870 --> 00:20:57,120
it fit perfectly because i'd already

577
00:21:01,110 --> 00:20:58,880
been talking about this

578
00:21:03,350 --> 00:21:01,120
uh issue of

579
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:03,360
genes and chromosomes and

580
00:21:08,070 --> 00:21:06,320
just the homogenization of our our human

581
00:21:09,669 --> 00:21:08,080
population at the point where if this

582
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:09,679
trend continues we're likely to have

583
00:21:15,190 --> 00:21:12,159
problems with an increase in homozygous

584
00:21:17,270 --> 00:21:15,200
recessive traits uh essentially a system

585
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:17,280
of global incest where we don't have new

586
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:19,440
gene variants the only place to get them

587
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,760
would be in the past where we can go

588
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:24,000
back and find haplogroups and haplotypes

589
00:21:27,909 --> 00:21:25,679
that didn't make it in the future so i'd

590
00:21:30,230 --> 00:21:27,919
already made this argument and then i

591
00:21:31,590 --> 00:21:30,240
read about jim penniston and he's told

592
00:21:34,390 --> 00:21:31,600
specifically

593
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:34,400
uh through this binary code take it for

594
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:36,480
for what it's worth but that they're

595
00:21:40,070 --> 00:21:37,919
coming back because of problems with

596
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:40,080
reproduction to get chromosomes and

597
00:21:43,190 --> 00:21:42,000
genes so i'm like all right well throw

598
00:21:45,190 --> 00:21:43,200
that in there because it's a very

599
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,200
different source

600
00:21:49,430 --> 00:21:47,039
uh a very different way of approaching

601
00:21:51,350 --> 00:21:49,440
this but we're saying the same thing for

602
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:51,360
potentially the same reason

603
00:21:53,990 --> 00:21:53,120
so there's been a lot of things like

604
00:21:56,149 --> 00:21:54,000
that

605
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,159
um but i also acknowledge like betty

606
00:22:01,110 --> 00:21:58,559
hill's star map for instance you can't

607
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:01,120
just ignore that you know so i kind of

608
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,720
break that down and look at it in the

609
00:22:06,789 --> 00:22:04,320
context of

610
00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:06,799
what what she was told how it fits with

611
00:22:11,909 --> 00:22:09,520
celestial maps and things like that

612
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:11,919
um so yeah i certainly don't claim to

613
00:22:16,789 --> 00:22:14,960
have the answers um but i i think that

614
00:22:18,470 --> 00:22:16,799
this model is worthy of consideration

615
00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:18,480
and it does help explain

616
00:22:22,950 --> 00:22:20,960
many aspects of this phenomenon yeah no

617
00:22:24,390 --> 00:22:22,960
totally i think that we've seen

618
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:24,400
you know for so many years we have the

619
00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:26,640
extraterrestrial hypothesis and now

620
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,480
obviously we're swamped with so many and

621
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,640
i think that's because they are all

622
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:32,400
valid you know and they're being looked

623
00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:34,960
at properly did you ever have any help

624
00:22:37,830 --> 00:22:36,480
along the way where you you needed

625
00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:37,840
someone else to kind of look at it so

626
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,760
you could take a step back or

627
00:22:43,990 --> 00:22:41,840
you know or was it just purely taboo and

628
00:22:47,029 --> 00:22:44,000
stigma left right and center

629
00:22:48,470 --> 00:22:47,039
no i had a ton of help um oh cool yeah

630
00:22:50,710 --> 00:22:48,480
i'm really lucky

631
00:22:52,070 --> 00:22:50,720
that i ended up where i did

632
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:52,080
um

633
00:22:57,350 --> 00:22:54,320
i had a research assistant for a long

634
00:23:00,070 --> 00:22:57,360
time a paid research assistant who

635
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:00,080
uh helped me kind of research some some

636
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,280
cases uh researched some aspects of time

637
00:23:06,630 --> 00:23:05,360
travel she

638
00:23:08,549 --> 00:23:06,640
she was uh

639
00:23:10,789 --> 00:23:08,559
uh

640
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:10,799
was she a mechanical engineer i believe

641
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,640
so it sort of fit with what she wanted

642
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:13,919
to do anyway

643
00:23:19,430 --> 00:23:17,520
so she sort of dug deep early on into

644
00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:19,440
different theories about how we might

645
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:21,679
time travel um

646
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:23,200
and other than people that are working

647
00:23:26,549 --> 00:23:24,960
on it now in

648
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:26,559
the literature

649
00:23:30,549 --> 00:23:28,400
um and you know i went to the chair of

650
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,559
my department a few years before i

651
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:32,960
published the book and said hey i'm

652
00:23:38,390 --> 00:23:36,000
writing a book about ufos uh whether or

653
00:23:40,630 --> 00:23:38,400
not it could be an aspect of time travel

654
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:40,640
future humans coming back

655
00:23:43,750 --> 00:23:42,240
just want to give you a heads up in case

656
00:23:45,350 --> 00:23:43,760
there's some fallout

657
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:45,360
uh and he looked at me and shook his

658
00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:46,559
head he said

659
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:48,000
that's our job that's what we're

660
00:23:51,269 --> 00:23:50,400
supposed to be doing is asking questions

661
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:51,279
like that and then they just turned

662
00:23:54,549 --> 00:23:52,559
around and walked away like it was the

663
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:54,559
dumbest question he'd ever heard

664
00:23:58,070 --> 00:23:56,080
and i was like well at least i got

665
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:58,080
support from my chair i mean who knows

666
00:24:02,070 --> 00:23:59,600
what's going to happen further up the

667
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:02,080
administration um but but they were

668
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:04,480
super supportive too the book came out

669
00:24:10,390 --> 00:24:07,360
uh got some immediate attention in the

670
00:24:11,990 --> 00:24:10,400
national international press um one of

671
00:24:13,430 --> 00:24:12,000
our big

672
00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:13,440
um

673
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:15,600
news agencies here that i don't think

674
00:24:20,710 --> 00:24:18,159
you have in the uk for what are probably

675
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:20,720
obvious reasons to you fox news

676
00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:23,360
they uh picked up the article

677
00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:26,000
that came out from another source the

678
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:28,320
chancellor of my entire university saw

679
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:30,240
it i went up to get my 10 year service

680
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:32,320
award and he shook my hands today i saw

681
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:33,919
that article it's so great you know

682
00:24:38,549 --> 00:24:36,320
congrats on on the book and i'm just

683
00:24:40,470 --> 00:24:38,559
like sweet all right well i guess

684
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:40,480
everybody is on board so

685
00:24:45,990 --> 00:24:42,640
yeah i mean i was able to have paid

686
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:46,000
research assistance um the the way the

687
00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:47,840
book was actually published

688
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:50,480
uh a woman in technical communications

689
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:52,640
needed a master's project

690
00:24:56,870 --> 00:24:53,919
i don't know if i've ever mentioned this

691
00:24:59,909 --> 00:24:56,880
on a podcast before but i owe her a deep

692
00:25:03,830 --> 00:24:59,919
gratitude um and she had to pick between

693
00:25:05,430 --> 00:25:03,840
doing a pamphlet on a new carousel in

694
00:25:07,830 --> 00:25:05,440
town or

695
00:25:10,390 --> 00:25:07,840
formatting this book knowing nothing

696
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:10,400
about formatting at all wow and she

697
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:12,159
probably regrets this decision but she

698
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:14,640
picked my book and um

699
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:16,559
yeah we both went on a wild ride with

700
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:18,480
that one learning about

701
00:25:22,870 --> 00:25:21,120
got all of the intricacies of

702
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:22,880
laying it out and

703
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:25,120
formatting the editing

704
00:25:29,669 --> 00:25:27,760
but she was a huge help very happy that

705
00:25:31,830 --> 00:25:29,679
she contributed and then i did have peer

706
00:25:33,909 --> 00:25:31,840
reviewers as well because it was really

707
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:33,919
based heavy in the science so

708
00:25:38,149 --> 00:25:36,159
i had a peer reviewer who was also a

709
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:38,159
biological anthropologist to kind of

710
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,880
cross check my own stuff and then

711
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:42,640
someone has taught quantum mechanics and

712
00:25:46,230 --> 00:25:44,720
thermodynamics for

713
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:46,240
25 years

714
00:25:50,470 --> 00:25:47,200
and then

715
00:25:53,350 --> 00:25:50,480
also a phd in biology so

716
00:25:55,669 --> 00:25:53,360
they were very critical of it and uh

717
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:55,679
really added a lot and and pointed out

718
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:58,400
some things that that needed changed

719
00:26:02,710 --> 00:26:00,159
that i overlooked so

720
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:02,720
yeah no i'm very grateful for all of the

721
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,200
people who have helped over the years

722
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:07,520
that's really positive to hear that

723
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,600
hear that because you know

724
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:11,200
the stigma in taboo like you said

725
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:13,600
yourself it is still there and we're

726
00:26:17,909 --> 00:26:15,120
trying to get through it and i know the

727
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:17,919
scientific community as well are really

728
00:26:21,029 --> 00:26:19,440
you know we've seen them start coming

729
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:21,039
forward talking about it and that's i

730
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:22,559
think all we really want to see going

731
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:24,960
forward so yeah not positive all these

732
00:26:29,269 --> 00:26:27,679
things i described too or before that

733
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:29,279
like when they were doing these peer

734
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:31,919
reviews it was before the new york times

735
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:33,679
article wow so

736
00:26:37,990 --> 00:26:35,440
yeah they're really

737
00:26:39,430 --> 00:26:38,000
i appreciate their open-mindedness to to

738
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:39,440
do that um

739
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:41,279
and i think you know we oftentimes

740
00:26:44,950 --> 00:26:43,039
create this false narrative that

741
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:44,960
everyone in academia

742
00:26:49,909 --> 00:26:47,279
is like no i'm not touching ufos i'm not

743
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:49,919
touching aliens but it's it's not really

744
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:52,000
the case as much as you would think it's

745
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:55,120
just that the academic press

746
00:27:00,630 --> 00:26:57,760
the the journals the publications won't

747
00:27:02,630 --> 00:27:00,640
touch it grant agencies won't touch it

748
00:27:04,230 --> 00:27:02,640
but a lot of us are deeply interested in

749
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:04,240
this and we're starting to come out more

750
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,279
because we can but even at this time

751
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:09,760
before the stigma started to wane a lot

752
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,360
of people were still super keen on it um

753
00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:15,200
one of the top researchers here at my

754
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:16,640
institution

755
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:18,159
um

756
00:27:21,909 --> 00:27:20,000
massively supported he's always been

757
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:21,919
interested in ufos since he was young

758
00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:23,760
stayed up like until three in the

759
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:25,840
morning was on coast to coast one night

760
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:27,840
just you know went texting back and

761
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:29,919
forth with him during the interview and

762
00:27:34,389 --> 00:27:32,320
wow um you know he's he's got more

763
00:27:36,950 --> 00:27:34,399
grants more patents than anybody on this

764
00:27:38,950 --> 00:27:36,960
campus so i i think i think it's really

765
00:27:41,269 --> 00:27:38,960
more individual than

766
00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:41,279
just academics as a whole

767
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:43,200
yeah no that's that's fair enough that

768
00:27:47,430 --> 00:27:45,520
again that makes more sense um

769
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:47,440
now listen along your journey did you

770
00:27:51,029 --> 00:27:48,880
ever get to

771
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,039
have discussions or interviews with

772
00:27:56,230 --> 00:27:54,000
actual experiences or people that have

773
00:27:57,510 --> 00:27:56,240
you know witnessed these craft and

774
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,520
you know just to kind of give you a

775
00:28:02,389 --> 00:27:59,440
better picture of it all

776
00:28:03,990 --> 00:28:02,399
yeah yeah quite a few um especially

777
00:28:06,870 --> 00:28:04,000
after the book came out

778
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:06,880
going to conferences and setting up the

779
00:28:11,350 --> 00:28:09,760
little table with books and things

780
00:28:12,870 --> 00:28:11,360
got to talk to

781
00:28:15,350 --> 00:28:12,880
i can't even

782
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:15,360
guess how many people over the last

783
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:16,960
couple years but

784
00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:20,000
um yeah a lot of repeat contactees

785
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:22,000
people have had experiences in their

786
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:25,919
families uh over generations and

787
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:27,919
yeah a lot of variation in how they

788
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:30,880
perceive those experiences the majority

789
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:33,039
anecdotally of course

790
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:34,320
seem to be

791
00:28:39,430 --> 00:28:36,960
pretty okay with it for the most part uh

792
00:28:43,029 --> 00:28:39,440
some are like i wish these things would

793
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:43,039
just leave us alone um but but i found

794
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:46,320
that that's relatively rare i guess and

795
00:28:50,549 --> 00:28:48,799
again the furry foundation study

796
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:50,559
supports that that most people

797
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:52,320
especially people only have one

798
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,919
experience

799
00:28:57,510 --> 00:28:55,600
really are freaked out by it but as it

800
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,520
happens more and more they actually come

801
00:29:02,070 --> 00:28:59,760
to enjoy these interactions and want

802
00:29:03,990 --> 00:29:02,080
them to continue so

803
00:29:07,029 --> 00:29:04,000
um yeah it's been a lot of variation a

804
00:29:08,230 --> 00:29:07,039
lot of people honestly have told me

805
00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:08,240
that

806
00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:10,880
after reading this book

807
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:13,360
they're more okay with it that before

808
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:14,960
especially with the anal probe thing

809
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:17,840
it's it really violates you in in such

810
00:29:23,110 --> 00:29:20,799
an intimate way um especially with women

811
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:23,120
all of the gamete extractions fetal

812
00:29:27,669 --> 00:29:25,279
extractions in some cases

813
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:27,679
i get it it's rape it's you know it's

814
00:29:31,990 --> 00:29:29,919
it's violating people and our most

815
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,000
private place but

816
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:34,399
you know i've had a few a few

817
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:36,080
i can think of at least three where they

818
00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:36,799
say

819
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:38,080
if it is us

820
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:40,240
i feel better about it you know having

821
00:29:44,549 --> 00:29:42,399
this idea in my mind that these beans

822
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:44,559
were coming from a different planet

823
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:46,720
just doing these horrible things to me

824
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:49,600
it really didn't sit well but if if they

825
00:29:53,269 --> 00:29:51,039
are us you know it's more like a

826
00:29:55,830 --> 00:29:53,279
doctor's visit it's our own species at

827
00:29:58,470 --> 00:29:55,840
least so it it kind of gave them a

828
00:30:00,310 --> 00:29:58,480
little bit of peace with the the

829
00:30:01,110 --> 00:30:00,320
situation whether whether it's true or

830
00:30:04,549 --> 00:30:01,120
not

831
00:30:06,230 --> 00:30:04,559
um just that idea helped help them

832
00:30:07,350 --> 00:30:06,240
come to grips with what's been happening

833
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:07,360
to them

834
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:10,159
yeah sure yeah um one thing i wanted to

835
00:30:14,149 --> 00:30:12,240
to ask you about is

836
00:30:15,269 --> 00:30:14,159
i've come across in my years of research

837
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,279
every now and again is that some of

838
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:17,440
these craft have actually got kind of

839
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:19,760
they are biological themselves in some

840
00:30:23,430 --> 00:30:21,600
way is that something you've come across

841
00:30:25,909 --> 00:30:23,440
as well and you do you put any weight

842
00:30:29,269 --> 00:30:25,919
behind that theory at all

843
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:29,279
yeah i do um especially because of the

844
00:30:34,149 --> 00:30:30,720
way

845
00:30:37,350 --> 00:30:34,159
the the beans who pilot them seem to

846
00:30:39,269 --> 00:30:37,360
interact with the machines themselves it

847
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:39,279
seems like there's almost this conscious

848
00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:40,480
control

849
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:42,720
beyond just pushing buttons that a lot

850
00:30:47,110 --> 00:30:45,200
of people describe buttons too uh travis

851
00:30:49,269 --> 00:30:47,120
walton when he escaped

852
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:49,279
um and went into the control room you

853
00:30:53,029 --> 00:30:51,760
know he sees buttons and but that the

854
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:53,039
craft

855
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:55,120
changed when he went in different place

856
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:56,880
like he went to the center of it and the

857
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:58,640
whole thing disappeared and he could see

858
00:31:01,750 --> 00:30:59,760
right through

859
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:01,760
this thing that was opaque before the

860
00:31:06,149 --> 00:31:04,240
lighting is really interesting and it's

861
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:06,159
described the same way in all these

862
00:31:10,230 --> 00:31:07,679
different accounts where it's just sort

863
00:31:12,950 --> 00:31:10,240
of radiating from nowhere they don't see

864
00:31:14,549 --> 00:31:12,960
individual lights but the craft itself

865
00:31:16,789 --> 00:31:14,559
seems to have

866
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:16,799
to be lit in some way

867
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:18,960
um so yeah i don't know i mean i assume

868
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:21,360
it's still some type of material but if

869
00:31:27,590 --> 00:31:24,399
it has some biological components to or

870
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,600
or it's a part of the material itself i

871
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:29,120
i wouldn't be surprised especially

872
00:31:34,070 --> 00:31:31,039
because the way they can seem to change

873
00:31:35,509 --> 00:31:34,080
shape um in certain cases not all of

874
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:35,519
them of course but

875
00:31:42,070 --> 00:31:38,399
there are videos that seem to show

876
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:42,080
the craft warping bending changing shape

877
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:43,840
and whether that's an aspect of the

878
00:31:49,190 --> 00:31:46,559
space-time manipulation or the actual

879
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:49,200
craft changing shape i can't say but

880
00:31:52,630 --> 00:31:51,200
yeah i think that's definitely something

881
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:52,640
that should be looked at because it

882
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:54,240
would make sense

883
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:55,120
do you think there could be a

884
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:57,120
possibility that it's the actual craft

885
00:32:01,509 --> 00:32:00,399
manipulating the camera or the person

886
00:32:02,950 --> 00:32:01,519
seeing it

887
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:02,960
making them think that it's changing

888
00:32:06,149 --> 00:32:04,480
where it's not is that something you've

889
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:06,159
touched upon at all

890
00:32:11,269 --> 00:32:08,640
maybe yeah um you know they get called

891
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:11,279
tricksters a lot and there does seem to

892
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:12,640
be

893
00:32:17,990 --> 00:32:15,919
a very tricky aspect to this especially

894
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:18,000
with the screen memories and

895
00:32:23,750 --> 00:32:20,799
owl figures and monkey figures mickey

896
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:23,760
mouse showing up against bedside and and

897
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:26,480
things like that so yeah i'd say that's

898
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:29,519
on the table too um just one one other

899
00:32:33,990 --> 00:32:31,919
aspect of how they're trying to confuse

900
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:34,000
us and keep us from really

901
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:36,559
knowing what's going on and what they're

902
00:32:40,149 --> 00:32:37,600
doing

903
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:40,159
yeah excellent um a good friend of mine

904
00:32:44,389 --> 00:32:42,480
mr strafe wilson actually sent a couple

905
00:32:45,509 --> 00:32:44,399
of questions that he wanted to put to

906
00:32:47,669 --> 00:32:45,519
you so

907
00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:47,679
um the first one in your opinion what

908
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:49,919
mechanisms would drive our current

909
00:32:56,389 --> 00:32:52,799
phenotypic characteristics to the point

910
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:56,399
where we would look like the greys

911
00:33:01,269 --> 00:32:58,799
well that's a tough one um

912
00:33:03,430 --> 00:33:01,279
i i tried to avoid any sort of

913
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:03,440
speculation about what's going to happen

914
00:33:06,789 --> 00:33:04,960
between now and then and again it

915
00:33:07,669 --> 00:33:06,799
depends on which then you're talking

916
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:07,679
about

917
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,960
if it's the humans

918
00:33:14,549 --> 00:33:12,880
nothing really i mean they look exactly

919
00:33:15,909 --> 00:33:14,559
like us and depending on what time

920
00:33:17,509 --> 00:33:15,919
they're coming back from it sort of

921
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:17,519
indicates there's not a lot of change

922
00:33:21,750 --> 00:33:19,440
and whether that's because there's not a

923
00:33:22,950 --> 00:33:21,760
lot of selective pressures

924
00:33:25,269 --> 00:33:22,960
uh

925
00:33:27,110 --> 00:33:25,279
it's hard to say too but you know i've

926
00:33:28,310 --> 00:33:27,120
heard some people say

927
00:33:31,190 --> 00:33:28,320
and i think a

928
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:31,200
a pretty well-known military

929
00:33:34,470 --> 00:33:33,279
uh member i can't quote who it is

930
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:34,480
specifically but i've heard this a

931
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:35,760
couple of times have said that if we

932
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:37,760
live in space for even two generations

933
00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:40,320
will look just like these grays so

934
00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:42,159
i don't necessarily believe that because

935
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:44,320
we don't really have a lot of selective

936
00:33:47,509 --> 00:33:45,840
pressures anymore we can buffer

937
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:47,519
ourselves from the natural environment

938
00:33:51,750 --> 00:33:49,200
with culture in the same way that we

939
00:33:53,750 --> 00:33:51,760
have for the last three million years so

940
00:33:55,110 --> 00:33:53,760
we don't really evolve in the same way

941
00:33:57,110 --> 00:33:55,120
that we used to and certainly not the

942
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:57,120
same speed at least not because of

943
00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:00,399
external environmental forces we still

944
00:34:05,590 --> 00:34:03,200
evolve because of gene drift and just

945
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:05,600
random fluctuations and other things

946
00:34:09,589 --> 00:34:08,639
that happen in response to our culture

947
00:34:11,349 --> 00:34:09,599
um

948
00:34:12,629 --> 00:34:11,359
people say if we lived underground you

949
00:34:14,710 --> 00:34:12,639
know ours would have to get bigger to

950
00:34:16,869 --> 00:34:14,720
see in the dark and i just stayed away

951
00:34:18,149 --> 00:34:16,879
from all of that stuff and really just

952
00:34:19,750 --> 00:34:18,159
focused on

953
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:19,760
what's already been happening

954
00:34:24,389 --> 00:34:21,919
consistently over the last eight million

955
00:34:26,310 --> 00:34:24,399
years since we stood upright

956
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,320
these changes if they continue into the

957
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:28,800
future are likely to make us look like

958
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,480
what's most commonly described

959
00:34:34,869 --> 00:34:32,480
regardless of whether we live in space

960
00:34:36,869 --> 00:34:34,879
on mars on the moon underground

961
00:34:38,230 --> 00:34:36,879
in the middle of the sun i don't think

962
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:38,240
it matters i think it's still going to

963
00:34:41,430 --> 00:34:39,119
happen

964
00:34:43,109 --> 00:34:41,440
sure kind of touches upon this this this

965
00:34:44,230 --> 00:34:43,119
other question which

966
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,240
first of all have you done any

967
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:47,040
predictive modeling of time scales and

968
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:49,200
could possible things like cataclysmic

969
00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:50,240
issues

970
00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:52,480
drive it in any way is that you know

971
00:34:55,030 --> 00:34:54,159
something you considered or is it again

972
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:55,040
like something you said you didn't

973
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:56,639
really touch upon

974
00:35:02,470 --> 00:34:59,599
uh i didn't end the first book because

975
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,480
that's a pretty esoteric taboo that we

976
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:04,400
have we're not supposed to talk about

977
00:35:09,190 --> 00:35:05,839
what we're going to look like in the

978
00:35:10,870 --> 00:35:09,200
future i remember reading that

979
00:35:13,109 --> 00:35:10,880
like the very first biological

980
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:13,119
anthropology textbook i ever read

981
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,800
remember exactly where i was too i was

982
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:16,320
upstairs in the library at ohio

983
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:18,720
university in this little back corner on

984
00:35:22,310 --> 00:35:20,160
the seventh floor

985
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:22,320
and i see this picture of

986
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:24,480
like an alien well it looks like a gray

987
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:25,839
alien with the big head and it's my

988
00:35:29,910 --> 00:35:27,920
house like oh sweet somebody already did

989
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:29,920
this and then they're like no we can't

990
00:35:33,910 --> 00:35:31,520
talk about this

991
00:35:36,790 --> 00:35:33,920
because it's it's teleology it's saying

992
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,800
that the ends just by the means or

993
00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:38,560
whatever reason they came up

994
00:35:44,470 --> 00:35:40,720
with but we should be talking about it

995
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:44,480
because we can see these trends

996
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:47,200
they're so persistent why can't we model

997
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:49,119
that forward and i actually am working

998
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:51,119
on a project right now

999
00:35:55,589 --> 00:35:52,880
uh likely as part of a

1000
00:35:57,670 --> 00:35:55,599
tv project if it gets picked up

1001
00:36:00,550 --> 00:35:57,680
where we're gonna do that we're gonna

1002
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,560
create a 3d model um

1003
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:02,640
i don't want to give too much away but

1004
00:36:07,510 --> 00:36:03,599
the

1005
00:36:09,829 --> 00:36:07,520
to do with that

1006
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:09,839
that i think could really um

1007
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:13,040
help bring together both the scientific

1008
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:14,720
side and

1009
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:15,520
the

1010
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:21,040
seems like you know as we move toward

1011
00:36:23,510 --> 00:36:22,720
disclosure or whatever you want to call

1012
00:36:27,109 --> 00:36:23,520
it

1013
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:27,119
in your name right there

1014
00:36:31,829 --> 00:36:29,520
um but but as we move toward this i feel

1015
00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:31,839
like the contact the experience has sort

1016
00:36:36,790 --> 00:36:34,640
of been pushed to the side a little bit

1017
00:36:38,470 --> 00:36:36,800
now it's just a focus on the ufos these

1018
00:36:39,670 --> 00:36:38,480
machines and that makes sense we have

1019
00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:39,680
tangible

1020
00:36:45,030 --> 00:36:42,640
video evidence from well-trained pilots

1021
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:45,040
and all of these different high-tech

1022
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:46,400
devices

1023
00:36:48,310 --> 00:36:47,280
but

1024
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:48,320
they should be left out of the

1025
00:36:53,430 --> 00:36:50,880
conversation they have a lot of

1026
00:36:55,430 --> 00:36:53,440
knowledge that we should tap into and

1027
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,440
and their experiences shouldn't be

1028
00:37:00,710 --> 00:36:57,680
dismissed just because we don't have

1029
00:37:01,510 --> 00:37:00,720
a body being paraded around uh at this

1030
00:37:02,550 --> 00:37:01,520
time

1031
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:02,560
so

1032
00:37:06,790 --> 00:37:05,040
i i i'm hopeful that that we're able to

1033
00:37:08,470 --> 00:37:06,800
continue with this project because i

1034
00:37:11,589 --> 00:37:08,480
have some collaborators who have been

1035
00:37:14,970 --> 00:37:11,599
working with for years on

1036
00:37:16,109 --> 00:37:14,980
various neuroanatomy paleo

1037
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:16,119
[Music]

1038
00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:19,200
paleonurology projects and and i think

1039
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:22,160
given our backgrounds and our knowledge

1040
00:37:27,589 --> 00:37:25,200
of geometric morphometrics cts

1041
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:27,599
mris and modeling these things

1042
00:37:31,510 --> 00:37:29,760
especially shaped components i think

1043
00:37:34,790 --> 00:37:31,520
there's a lot of a lot of places we

1044
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:34,800
could go so so no as as of now we

1045
00:37:38,230 --> 00:37:36,960
haven't but it's it's hopefully in the

1046
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:38,240
works

1047
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,839
excellent and what about we've started

1048
00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:41,119
hearing a lot more in the last few years

1049
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:43,440
about biological effects on people that

1050
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,640
have come you know within a certain

1051
00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:47,040
proximity of these these objects do you

1052
00:37:50,069 --> 00:37:48,480
think that it's

1053
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:50,079
worth testing these people to see if

1054
00:37:54,950 --> 00:37:52,640
there's been any biological changes in

1055
00:37:56,310 --> 00:37:54,960
them whether it's dna blood or any of

1056
00:38:00,069 --> 00:37:56,320
that or is that something you've

1057
00:38:03,589 --> 00:38:00,079
considered or plan on doing at all

1058
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:03,599
yeah um absolutely i talk about it more

1059
00:38:08,150 --> 00:38:06,160
in this next book um because yeah a lot

1060
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:08,160
of them do have what seem to be

1061
00:38:12,550 --> 00:38:10,800
radiation burns in many cases those have

1062
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:12,560
come close especially when the device is

1063
00:38:15,589 --> 00:38:14,000
powering up

1064
00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:15,599
and moving away

1065
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:18,400
they seem to get this blast of radiation

1066
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:20,160
and what's interesting though is that

1067
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:22,880
most go on to live long happy lives in

1068
00:38:26,710 --> 00:38:24,880
the cases i've seen at least you don't

1069
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:26,720
see people really succumbing to those

1070
00:38:30,069 --> 00:38:27,760
injuries

1071
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:30,079
and and i remember talking with i think

1072
00:38:34,710 --> 00:38:32,800
it was chris mellon or somebody and they

1073
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:34,720
they were saying well why would they do

1074
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:37,200
this to us why would they hurt us

1075
00:38:41,670 --> 00:38:39,520
if they know that their device has this

1076
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:41,680
effect but it doesn't seem to really

1077
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:44,960
hurt us in a long-term sense i i've you

1078
00:38:49,270 --> 00:38:46,720
know documented seven or eight cases

1079
00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:49,280
where these people got blasted with this

1080
00:38:53,829 --> 00:38:51,760
radiation and they've got some welts and

1081
00:38:56,470 --> 00:38:53,839
some burns and things are very weak and

1082
00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:56,480
tired for a couple days but then they

1083
00:39:01,510 --> 00:38:59,920
end up being 85 years old so if it if

1084
00:39:02,710 --> 00:39:01,520
it's radiation in the way that we

1085
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:02,720
understand it where they're getting

1086
00:39:06,790 --> 00:39:04,960
bombarded with all of these

1087
00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:06,800
atoms and things that are tearing them

1088
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:08,400
apart from the inside you'd expect them

1089
00:39:11,990 --> 00:39:10,480
to die from that but that doesn't seem

1090
00:39:13,109 --> 00:39:12,000
to be the case so

1091
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:13,119
yeah i think we should definitely be

1092
00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:14,320
looking at those i also think we should

1093
00:39:17,589 --> 00:39:16,079
be taking seriously those that claim to

1094
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:17,599
be hybrids

1095
00:39:24,470 --> 00:39:20,480
because many of them seem to have

1096
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:24,480
uh esp precognitive abilities just a

1097
00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:26,720
deeper connection with this phenomenon

1098
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:29,200
the conscious aspects of it so i would

1099
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:32,800
love to get a sample of those in an mri

1100
00:39:37,670 --> 00:39:35,280
do an fmri analysis and then compare

1101
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:37,680
that to a control group and see

1102
00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:41,119
you know whether or not they have any

1103
00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:42,560
detectable

1104
00:39:46,069 --> 00:39:45,280
characteristics especially while they're

1105
00:39:48,710 --> 00:39:46,079
they're

1106
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,720
making precognitive decisions or

1107
00:39:52,870 --> 00:39:49,920
communicating with someone

1108
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:52,880
telepathically as they say we should be

1109
00:39:57,109 --> 00:39:55,040
able to see that in an fmri whatever

1110
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:57,119
part of their brain is doing that so i

1111
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:58,640
think there's so many ways this

1112
00:40:02,390 --> 00:40:00,880
phenomenon lends itself to scientific

1113
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,400
scrutiny

1114
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:04,480
and i'm hopeful as this stigma continues

1115
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:06,400
to wane that we're able to start doing

1116
00:40:10,870 --> 00:40:07,920
more of those things

1117
00:40:13,349 --> 00:40:10,880
excellent great a question from laura

1118
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:13,359
sosa what research are you familiar with

1119
00:40:18,069 --> 00:40:15,280
that delves into gene expression

1120
00:40:20,550 --> 00:40:18,079
throughout the bioanthro record and how

1121
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:20,560
might crispr be used in further

1122
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,400
explanation

1123
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:24,400
are you aware of crispr oh yeah

1124
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:27,040
definitely um it's just a gene editing

1125
00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:30,160
mechanism where you can take specific

1126
00:40:34,710 --> 00:40:32,480
genes that are targeted and then

1127
00:40:36,829 --> 00:40:34,720
manipulate them by putting in other base

1128
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:36,839
pairs essentially to create other

1129
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:40,880
effects um i i do think that crispr and

1130
00:40:46,069 --> 00:40:43,920
other technologies could be a component

1131
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:46,079
of our evolutionary future

1132
00:40:50,470 --> 00:40:48,240
um

1133
00:40:53,829 --> 00:40:50,480
it sort of brings up

1134
00:40:55,750 --> 00:40:53,839
an interesting question

1135
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:55,760
and one that i i don't really touch on

1136
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:57,440
too much

1137
00:41:01,990 --> 00:40:59,680
but if if they are time travelers and

1138
00:41:04,630 --> 00:41:02,000
they're clearly they've been in our past

1139
00:41:05,589 --> 00:41:04,640
too present and our past and likely deep

1140
00:41:09,430 --> 00:41:05,599
past

1141
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:09,440
based on many things in pre-history

1142
00:41:15,349 --> 00:41:13,119
were they manipulating us were they

1143
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:15,359
creating themselves potentially in some

1144
00:41:20,309 --> 00:41:17,520
way and i think that's what your your

1145
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:20,319
viewers question was about is are they

1146
00:41:25,270 --> 00:41:22,000
or have they been

1147
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:25,280
manipulating our dna to create something

1148
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:26,880
else and

1149
00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:29,280
i i don't know i try to stay away from

1150
00:41:32,710 --> 00:41:30,880
that because of

1151
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,720
just uh

1152
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:34,400
well for one i can't know so it would be

1153
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,280
pure speculation but there also doesn't

1154
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:39,599
really seem to be any period in our

1155
00:41:43,670 --> 00:41:41,520
evolutionary past where there is a major

1156
00:41:45,589 --> 00:41:43,680
jump or anything we can see an

1157
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:45,599
acceleration

1158
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,079
but that seems like a natural

1159
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:50,800
acceleration that really goes back two

1160
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:53,359
and a half million years to the earliest

1161
00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:56,079
members of our genus so i i don't know

1162
00:42:00,550 --> 00:41:58,160
i'm kind of skeptical of any sort of

1163
00:42:02,950 --> 00:42:00,560
broad-based manipulation i think it's

1164
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:02,960
more self-serving that they're doing

1165
00:42:07,030 --> 00:42:05,680
things to us now and in the past to help

1166
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:07,040
themselves

1167
00:42:10,750 --> 00:42:08,720
in the future but that could be

1168
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:10,760
completely wrong yeah more of a

1169
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:12,880
self-preservation thing or

1170
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:15,599
preservation for all of us our species

1171
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:18,720
as a whole um but i guess i wouldn't be

1172
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:20,960
surprised either if i found out that in

1173
00:42:25,510 --> 00:42:22,880
order to do that they had to change some

1174
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:25,520
things in the past to avoid things but

1175
00:42:30,470 --> 00:42:28,560
again that means they always did it so

1176
00:42:33,270 --> 00:42:30,480
nothing's really changing they're just

1177
00:42:35,349 --> 00:42:33,280
doing what they've always already done

1178
00:42:37,349 --> 00:42:35,359
yeah fabulous um

1179
00:42:38,870 --> 00:42:37,359
message here shadows of your mind hello

1180
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:38,880
dave um

1181
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,079
sorry if this has been touched on

1182
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:42,000
already but nasa had a set of twins on

1183
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:43,040
their books

1184
00:42:47,270 --> 00:42:45,119
one went to the iss one state on earth

1185
00:42:49,750 --> 00:42:47,280
when he came back from space's dna was

1186
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:49,760
different to his brothers

1187
00:42:53,349 --> 00:42:51,359
that's interesting

1188
00:42:55,589 --> 00:42:53,359
yeah kelly what's his name kelly

1189
00:42:57,349 --> 00:42:55,599
something maybe his last name was kelly

1190
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:57,359
and i know he's talking about the

1191
00:43:01,990 --> 00:42:59,200
shortball guy

1192
00:43:04,309 --> 00:43:02,000
with the twin and yeah you'd expect that

1193
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:04,319
especially because of radiation there's

1194
00:43:07,349 --> 00:43:05,200
uh

1195
00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:07,359
our electromagnetic field really

1196
00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:09,760
protects us from a lot of dangerous

1197
00:43:13,589 --> 00:43:11,839
solar radiation that you i mean they

1198
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:13,599
obviously try to protect the astronauts

1199
00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:15,680
in the iss but

1200
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:18,160
yeah i mean you'd expect some sort of

1201
00:43:22,069 --> 00:43:20,240
variation um

1202
00:43:25,109 --> 00:43:22,079
a lot of things happen with regard to

1203
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:25,119
his physiology his his eyes changed his

1204
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:26,640
vision changed

1205
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:27,839
um

1206
00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:30,000
yeah it seems like that was a great

1207
00:43:34,230 --> 00:43:32,560
experiment and twins are perfect for

1208
00:43:35,910 --> 00:43:34,240
those types of things you if you're if

1209
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:35,920
you have an identical twin you can make

1210
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,079
a ton of money i've been researching all

1211
00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:40,560
right get into it

1212
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:42,640
yeah

1213
00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:44,079
get that green

1214
00:43:47,510 --> 00:43:46,079
absolutely yeah

1215
00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:47,520
um

1216
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,880
i've lost my train of thought there

1217
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:50,160
though

1218
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:52,240
oh the new book you keep mentioning this

1219
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:53,359
new book you're able to give us an

1220
00:43:57,589 --> 00:43:55,040
overview of where that

1221
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,599
what you're taking you know further past

1222
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,280
your uh not as good as your old book

1223
00:44:03,030 --> 00:44:01,040
it's not that old but

1224
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:03,040
yeah what's the new one about yeah i

1225
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:06,000
wasn't uh trying to do drops or anything

1226
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:12,390
and it's more or less written i

1227
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:14,560
uh made the mistake of sending it to

1228
00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:17,280
some peer reviewers who i'm paying in

1229
00:44:22,150 --> 00:44:19,920
wild game sausage and it just doesn't

1230
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:22,160
have the same contractual obligations

1231
00:44:26,550 --> 00:44:23,839
that uh

1232
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:26,560
that other types of contracts do so i

1233
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:29,760
just got it back um from three of them

1234
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:31,520
or at least most of it after three

1235
00:44:36,390 --> 00:44:34,000
months of not being able to work on it

1236
00:44:39,270 --> 00:44:36,400
um but it is pretty far along

1237
00:44:41,030 --> 00:44:39,280
as far as the content goes so i i find

1238
00:44:43,829 --> 00:44:41,040
myself referencing a lot because yeah

1239
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:43,839
it's it's it's a very different approach

1240
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:45,599
the the first book

1241
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:48,880
really looked at the the science um

1242
00:44:53,109 --> 00:44:52,240
behind the craft the beans

1243
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:53,119
um

1244
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:55,680
but the long-term evolutionary changes

1245
00:44:58,710 --> 00:44:57,599
that we've been talking about and only

1246
00:45:00,630 --> 00:44:58,720
brought in

1247
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:00,640
a couple of

1248
00:45:05,589 --> 00:45:04,000
actual encounters witnesses contactees

1249
00:45:08,069 --> 00:45:05,599
abductees

1250
00:45:10,870 --> 00:45:08,079
um that this next book sort of takes the

1251
00:45:12,790 --> 00:45:10,880
opposite approach where it looks at 20

1252
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:12,800
case studies um

1253
00:45:16,950 --> 00:45:14,720
in the context of this model the other

1254
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:16,960
models that are out there at least the

1255
00:45:22,870 --> 00:45:19,920
most conventional of them

1256
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:22,880
and uh yeah just really tries to see how

1257
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:24,880
it fits obviously still make a case for

1258
00:45:29,910 --> 00:45:27,520
this extra tempestrial model but

1259
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:29,920
see what works what doesn't really bring

1260
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:31,599
in other critiques

1261
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:34,880
of this idea uh weigh their merits um

1262
00:45:38,470 --> 00:45:36,640
but but look at in the context of what

1263
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:38,480
these people experience and and the

1264
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:41,440
patterns most most importantly

1265
00:45:45,510 --> 00:45:43,599
uh the consistency

1266
00:45:47,190 --> 00:45:45,520
among these accounts i think is is

1267
00:45:48,870 --> 00:45:47,200
really important

1268
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:48,880
because really all we have is the

1269
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:50,960
descriptions of the craft the beans and

1270
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:53,359
what they're seeing doing so

1271
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:55,440
that's what we have to start with that's

1272
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:57,680
what we have to go by at this time until

1273
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,400
we're gifted a craft and gifted you know

1274
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:02,400
some some of these individuals these

1275
00:46:05,349 --> 00:46:03,520
visitors

1276
00:46:07,829 --> 00:46:05,359
so but looking at all these different

1277
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:07,839
accounts i think you can see patterns if

1278
00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:09,440
you look at enough of them and that's

1279
00:46:13,589 --> 00:46:10,880
been really fun for me because i didn't

1280
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:13,599
get the chance to dive too deep into

1281
00:46:18,150 --> 00:46:16,480
the fact i didn't know jim peniston was

1282
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:18,160
when i did my first interview on this

1283
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:20,400
subject i think is telling so i've

1284
00:46:25,829 --> 00:46:23,119
really gone deep into the

1285
00:46:27,750 --> 00:46:25,839
the contact modalities and all of the

1286
00:46:29,829 --> 00:46:27,760
different things that happened to people

1287
00:46:32,230 --> 00:46:29,839
and then start to break those down and

1288
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:32,240
look at the the patterns and sort of an

1289
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:34,560
abductive approach

1290
00:46:37,910 --> 00:46:36,240
wow that's incredible what's the time

1291
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:37,920
scale for a release on that new book

1292
00:46:41,589 --> 00:46:38,960
then

1293
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:41,599
um i'm thinking we're still on track for

1294
00:46:45,750 --> 00:46:44,240
early next year probably

1295
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:45,760
um

1296
00:46:50,790 --> 00:46:48,640
i'd say spring at the latest so

1297
00:46:53,750 --> 00:46:50,800
within six months or so hopefully things

1298
00:46:56,870 --> 00:46:53,760
go to play i lost my um i lost my

1299
00:46:59,190 --> 00:46:56,880
formatter though she graduated and went

1300
00:47:01,109 --> 00:46:59,200
on to do bigger and better things and

1301
00:47:02,630 --> 00:47:01,119
i asked her if she wanted to do this one

1302
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:02,640
she said no

1303
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:05,200
no i don't i don't want to do that

1304
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:06,160
um

1305
00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:08,560
but yeah so so i i'll still be

1306
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:11,920
soliciting help from others and uh it's

1307
00:47:14,309 --> 00:47:13,440
that's kind of fun it's fun building a

1308
00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:14,319
team

1309
00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:16,400
and we're all working together for the

1310
00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:18,240
same ends

1311
00:47:24,390 --> 00:47:21,440
yeah each each time is different um

1312
00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:24,400
so i'm excited it's been fun that sounds

1313
00:47:28,230 --> 00:47:25,920
good i'll make sure i read your book

1314
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:28,240
before the new one comes out i literally

1315
00:47:32,309 --> 00:47:30,079
have it i have a stack of books next to

1316
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:32,319
me now probably 10 15 books that i've

1317
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:34,720
yet to read it's yeah never ending it's

1318
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:36,800
i imagine that so

1319
00:47:40,630 --> 00:47:38,319
it is when i'm trying to do this and

1320
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:40,640
other things yeah it gets it gets given

1321
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:42,720
so you've got the tv thing in the works

1322
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:44,559
as well is that without saying too much

1323
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:46,000
is that something we can expect to see

1324
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:47,920
next year as well

1325
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:49,920
hopefully um

1326
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:52,400
yeah i mean i've i've been doing

1327
00:47:56,549 --> 00:47:54,240
oh it's got i think i did

1328
00:47:57,990 --> 00:47:56,559
six shoots over the last four or five

1329
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:58,000
months it's been

1330
00:48:01,990 --> 00:47:59,440
yeah i think i'll be on tv tonight

1331
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:02,000
actually talking about this very theory

1332
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:03,040
um

1333
00:48:08,069 --> 00:48:05,839
yeah i think i think i saw that uh i

1334
00:48:10,549 --> 00:48:08,079
don't know what time it would be

1335
00:48:12,630 --> 00:48:10,559
there if you have the history channel in

1336
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:12,640
the uk or you're a listener that's not

1337
00:48:16,790 --> 00:48:15,920
in the uk i think it's eight o'clock

1338
00:48:19,829 --> 00:48:16,800
uh

1339
00:48:21,750 --> 00:48:19,839
mountain time 10 eastern i'll actually

1340
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:21,760
be talking about this theory on a show

1341
00:48:25,510 --> 00:48:24,079
called the proof is out there so i don't

1342
00:48:27,750 --> 00:48:25,520
know what happened in post-production

1343
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:27,760
they might trash the whole thing

1344
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:30,000
i'm a little nervous about where they

1345
00:48:33,030 --> 00:48:30,800
fall

1346
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,040
with regard to the idea but i'm pretty

1347
00:48:38,309 --> 00:48:35,520
sure uh part of the episode at least is

1348
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:38,319
about this time travel model and there's

1349
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:40,319
um i've gotten it out in some other

1350
00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:42,960
capacities too that i don't think i can

1351
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:46,000
talk about yet but um if when when

1352
00:48:48,870 --> 00:48:48,079
they're about to come out i'll mention

1353
00:48:50,309 --> 00:48:48,880
those

1354
00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:50,319
yeah that'd be great i think people will

1355
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,359
be really

1356
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:54,160
really interested to see so listen

1357
00:48:57,430 --> 00:48:55,839
i just want to thank you so much for for

1358
00:48:59,270 --> 00:48:57,440
agreeing to do this chat i really

1359
00:49:01,990 --> 00:48:59,280
appreciate it i find it absolutely

1360
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:02,000
fascinating um we keep saying that we

1361
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:03,680
wanted to see more science coming into

1362
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:06,000
the subject and we are so thank you

1363
00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:07,920
you know i really really do appreciate

1364
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:10,079
it and so before we go where can

1365
00:49:13,670 --> 00:49:11,359
everybody find you if they want to come

1366
00:49:16,150 --> 00:49:13,680
and follow what you're up to

1367
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:16,160
uh you know i got all of the requisite

1368
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:18,960
social media sites that i i try to keep

1369
00:49:22,710 --> 00:49:21,119
up with um

1370
00:49:26,069 --> 00:49:22,720
there's a contact page through my

1371
00:49:27,990 --> 00:49:26,079
website just michaelpmasters.com

1372
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:28,000
and um

1373
00:49:32,549 --> 00:49:30,319
yeah i try to keep up with information

1374
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:32,559
about speaking engagements and obviously

1375
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:34,319
information about the new book

1376
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:36,960
uh i can also sign up to get on an email

1377
00:49:41,430 --> 00:49:39,280
list through that same site so

1378
00:49:43,670 --> 00:49:41,440
uh yeah michaelpmasters.com

1379
00:49:44,790 --> 00:49:43,680
it's kind of a good hub for a lot of

1380
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:44,800
these things

1381
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:46,160
excellent i'll make sure that all your

1382
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:47,839
links are in the description below for

1383
00:49:50,710 --> 00:49:49,760
when the video goes live after right

1384
00:49:55,109 --> 00:49:50,720
after it's

1385
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,119
yeah thank you again and maybe you know

1386
00:49:58,309 --> 00:49:57,040
next year when you knew books out on

1387
00:50:00,150 --> 00:49:58,319
that you'd come back on and we can

1388
00:50:01,589 --> 00:50:00,160
discuss it that'd be great yeah

1389
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,599
absolutely it's been great chatting with

1390
00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:03,280
you so anytime

1391
00:50:06,470 --> 00:50:05,040
thank you ever so much and you enjoy the

1392
00:50:10,950 --> 00:50:06,480
rest of your day

1393
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:12,710
guys thank you so much i found that

1394
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:14,960
absolutely incredible really really

1395
00:50:19,190 --> 00:50:17,440
eye-opening stuff um yeah so thank you

1396
00:50:20,950 --> 00:50:19,200
everyone that joined me live thank you

1397
00:50:21,829 --> 00:50:20,960
everyone that listens to this after the

1398
00:50:23,670 --> 00:50:21,839
fact

1399
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:23,680
thank you for the kind comments

1400
00:50:27,589 --> 00:50:25,280
on the new haircut

1401
00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:27,599
had to be done

1402
00:50:32,470 --> 00:50:30,000
so yeah guys thank you so much now i'm

1403
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:32,480
going to be back here in

1404
00:50:37,589 --> 00:50:35,920
on monday with kevin knuth so i'm really

1405
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,599
looking forward to that one

1406
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:39,280
um it's going to be a great one so join

1407
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:40,880
me there if you want all the details for

1408
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:42,720
times and everything that'll be on my

1409
00:50:47,349 --> 00:50:46,160
instagram tomorrow

1410
00:50:49,109 --> 00:50:47,359
yeah

1411
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:49,119
i'll leave it at that thank you ever so

1412
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:51,680
much guys take care and i'll see you on